[Greenbuilding] Big Green: Fw: Green Seal and "Green" Paint (andstains)

Mon Jun 2 18:27:14 EDT 2008

In order to try and address this issue, USGBC changed the criteria for paints, adhesives, furniture and other assemblies in the new LEED for Schools.  It's a significant change from the other LEED versions.  It requires testing using a California test protocol, called Section 01350, which looks at exposure limits for a wide range of chemicals.  A copy of the document is here: http://www.dhs.ca.gov/ps/deodc/ehlb/iaq/VOCS/Practice.htm

Not a panacea, but an indicator that the discussion about toxicity is widening from typical VOCs and formaldehyde to include a range of substances.

Kristian Kicinski AIA
LEED Accredited Professional

Bassetti Architects
71 Columbia St. #500 | Seattle, WA 98104
P (206)340-9500 | F (206)340-9519

kkicinski at bassettiarch.com

-----Original Message-----
From: biggreen-bounces at lists.biggreen.org [mailto:biggreen-bounces at lists.biggreen.org] On Behalf Of JOHN SALMEN
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 3:28 PM
To: 'Andrew Pace, CSI'; 'Lance Fletcher'; greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org; biggreen at lists.biggreen.org
Cc: 'Sierra Fletcher'
Subject: RE: [Greenbuilding] Big Green: Fw: Green Seal and "Green" Paint (andstains)

I couldn't agree more. A lot of 'green' formulations are new chemistry, i.e ingredients that are either new in formulation or in combination and there is a potential of them being worse than the materials they are designed to replace. I've gone from an MSDS to researching the individual components (that are required to be listed) and end up with big concerns. I remember researching an ingredient used as a drying agent in an environmentally popular non voc water based floor finish - identified elsewhere as being related to miscarriage. Is this something I'm supposed to recommend to a pregnant person as a suitable alternative.

Realistically there is no material that is environmentally durable that is environmentally friendly. That is your basic contradiction in terms - and the label 'environmentally friendly material' is truly an oxymoron. If a material is going to resist rapid environmental deterioration (part of the definition of a 'material') then it is going to resist the environment to all its worth. Our valuation of a material should consist of determining what the worth/cost/risk is comparatively and communicate that information.

I've been doing this a while now and increasingly go to materials that have historical usage and some contemporary acceptability. For example floor finish. In north America in 150 years or so we have gone from swept sand on bare wood to wanting a 'sheen' and 'protection'. 

Currently for 'green' products we have water based non voc polyurethane finishes, 'inert' epoxy type finishes, various water or 'citrus' based oil type finishes. Typically a poly or epoxy based formulation was considered 'inert' (outgassing) upon cure (7 days or so). Now we are seeing research that indicates that that cure is not necessarily stable and that curing agents continue to emit influence indefinitely depending on the formulation.

 This is potentially very toxic stuff even in minute quantities. So I started looking at more traditional oil finishes using a more friendly citrus thinner. Turns out that 'citrus' as a thinner is highly sensitizing as a turpene - much more so than a standard tree turpentine. So eventually I settled on a raw tung oil finish using pure turpentine as an 'acceptable'
toxic finish for floors, meaning that the known toxicity has historical basis and known consequence and I can identify the type of protection needed and the application and durability are 'acceptable'. There are other 'european' balsam oil/water formulations that seem like they might be quite acceptable but not with the same degree of protection and 'sheen' (Europeans are much more acceptable of dull finishes and marred floors).

I could go on forever about materials and their usages, but you get the point.

JOHN SALMEN ENVIRONMENTAL DESIGN
4465 UPHILL RD,. DUNCAN, B.C.  CANADA, V9L 6M7 PH 250 748 7672 FAX 250 748 7612 CELL 250 246 8541 terrain at shaw.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org
[mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Pace, CSI
Sent: May 29, 2008 7:58 AM
To: Lance Fletcher; greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org; biggreen at lists.biggreen.org
Cc: Sierra Fletcher
Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Big Green: Fw: Green Seal and "Green" Paint (and stains)

While I agree that there are great benefits to promoting recycled paints, I am curious to know why the subject of whether or not a paint is considered Œgreen¹ always has to start and stop with the VOC content.  There are literally dozens of other ingredients in latex paint that are just as, or even more harmful to humans than propylene or ethylene glycol (the typical VOC¹s in water based paint).  Ammonia, butyl acetate, silica, formaldehyde donors, biocides and many more HAP¹s that are either not classified or are exempt from the EPA regulations.  VOC¹s are not regulated because of their direct effect on humans.  They are specifically regulated because of the possibility that they could create outdoor air pollution.  So, shouldn¹t we be MORE concerned about human health?

Andrew Pace
Http://www.degreeofgreen.com

On 5/29/08 9:19 AM, "Lance Fletcher" <lfletcher at rcn.com> wrote:

> For anyone interested in recycled paints, here is an excerpt from a 
> paint listserv maintained by the Product Stewardship Instititute (see 
> below for contacts).
>  
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Sierra Fletcher <mailto:sierra at productstewardship.us>
> To: lfletcher at rcn.com
> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 3:59 PM
> Subject: FW: Green Seal and "Green" Paint (and stains)
> 

_______________________________________________
Greenbuilding email list
     Environmentally-preferable design, construction, building elements List info:
http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_listserv.repp.org
List email: Greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org Managed by BuildingGreen, Inc. http://www.buildinggreen.com
      publisher of Environmental Building News and GreenSpec Hosted and archived by REPP / CREST http://www.crest.org To get on the list:
  http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_listserv.repp.org
  or mailto:greenbuilding-request at listserv.repp.org?subject=unsubscribe
To get off the list:
  http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_listserv.repp.org
  or mailto:greenbuilding-request at listserv.repp.org?subject=unsubscribe

_______________________________________________________________
This green building dialogue is provided as a public service by Drew George, along with Environmental Building News http://www.buildinggreen.com. For instructions see http://www.biggreen.org/discussion.html
_______________________________________________________________