Big Green: RE:white roof water runoff temperature
Darragh Brady
dbrady at zigersnead.com
Thu May 22 12:54:46 EDT 2008
John-
I had good luck a couple years ago finding out about the difference in
roof temperatures and the resultant effects on heating/cooling thru the
Lawrence Livermore Labs in CA. I don't specifically remember anything
about water temp but it might be worth googling that subject and them
and see what you come up with.
Darragh Brady, AIA LEED AP
Senior Associate
Ziger/Snead LLP
Architects
1006 Morton Street
Baltimore, MD 21201
P. 410 576 9131
Fax. 410 576 9159
www.zigersnead.com
www.greenlineblog.com
-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 12:00 PM
To: biggreen at lists.biggreen.org
Subject: BigGreen Digest, Vol 31, Issue 15
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Today's Topics:
1. White roof water temp runoff? (John E. Beeson)
2. RE: Finding a green firm? (Kristian Kicinski)
3. Re: White roof water temp runoff? (Barrie Moore)
4. RE: White roof water temp runoff? (John E. Beeson)
5. RE: White roof water temp runoff? (Heather Walters)
6. RE:White roof water temp runoff? (John E. Beeson)
7. pioneers of green building--who are they? (Lisa Selin Davis)
8. Re: pioneers of green building--who are they? (Jesse Thompson)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 14:49:46 -0400
From: "John E. Beeson" <jbeeson at quinnevans.com>
Subject: Big Green: White roof water temp runoff?
To: <biggreen at lists.biggreen.org>
Message-ID:
<E4DA7CC709C64F418C163E11980245B9E60325 at a2xeon.quinnevans.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Anyone know a source that can document the temperature of water coming
off of a white roof (first flush and after)in Michigan during the
summer?
QUINN EVANS | ARCHITECTS
John E. Beeson, LEED AP
219 1/2 N. Main Street
Ann Arbor, MI 48104
jbeeson at quinnevans.com
www.quinnevans.com
d 734 926 0425
v 734 663 5888
f 734 663 5044
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 12:28:50 -0700
From: "Kristian Kicinski" <kkicinski at BassettiArch.com>
Subject: RE: Big Green: Finding a green firm?
To: "Charles Brown" <charles at brownarchitecture.net>, "BigGreen List"
<biggreen at lists.biggreen.org>
Message-ID:
<E2522A1A7466B14FA241FAD51B609043010CD82F at 2k3mail.corp.bassettiarch.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Some questions to measure a firms commitment to green is to ask these
kinds of questions:
How have the principals of the firm taken an active role in promoting
sustainable design in the area? Are they serving on the boards or
committees of local or national organization chapters like USGBC, AIA
COTE, or other groups?
How many partners, principals, and associates are LEED accredited?
How are sustainable design strategies/ which strategies are you
incorporating into your non-LEED certified projects?
Has the firm completed any projects that demonstrate leadership in
environmental design by being the first to achieve certain awards or
certifications? For example, AIA Top Ten Green, first Gold-certified
hospital/school/army bunker, first net-zero energy building in the area,
etc.
Which projects in your office are pursuing the Living Building
Challenge?
Kristian Kicinski AIA
LEED Accredited Professional
Bassetti Architects
71 Columbia St. #500 | Seattle, WA 98104 P (206)340-9500 | F
(206)340-9519
kkicinski at bassettiarch.com <mailto:kkicinski at bassettiarch.com>
________________________________
From: biggreen-bounces at lists.biggreen.org
[mailto:biggreen-bounces at lists.biggreen.org] On Behalf Of Charles Brown
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 12:09 AM
To: BigGreen List
Subject: Big Green: Finding a green firm?
A former employee (architect) is looking to make a change in the DC
area. She asked me for references and firms to investigate. This got me
thinking.
As the market has changed and many more clients are requesting greener
buildings, most design firms have some experience with green building
and/or LEED. Five years ago I would have questioned a firm's "buy-in" to
green if there wasn't something green about all their work. Many
fence-sitting firms now appear to be firmly committed to greener
practices, while others remain on the fence - giving lip service when
pushed by a client. My impression is that near 100% of recent graduates
want to work for a green firm, but most are being held back by firm
leadership.
My questions:
As a potential employee how does one determine a firms' commitment to
green design?
What questions do you ask during an interview?
How do you judge a firm's commitment to leading the industry vs. one
that will be content with LEED Silver and point chasing?
Anecdotal example: A former partner once stated; "I think of LEED as
similar to ADA. In ten years all firms will be doing green projects as
standard practice, just as it took several years for firms to really
understand ADA." My argument was that if we are content with today's
LEED levels in 10 years then the world is in for a lot of hurt!
Thanks, Charles
Charles Brown, AIA LEED AP
Brown Architecture Inc.
324 So. Wilmington Street - Box 117
Raleigh, North Carolina 27601
charles at brownarchitecture.net
919.803.3700
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 10:54:43 +0100
From: Barrie Moore <merlon at gn.apc.org>
Subject: Re: Big Green: White roof water temp runoff?
To: "John E. Beeson" <jbeeson at quinnevans.com>
Cc: biggreen at lists.biggreen.org
Message-ID: <a06210200c45af2e66e1a@[192.168.1.2]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Anyone know a source that can document the temperature of water coming
>off of a white roof (first flush and after)in Michigan during the
>summer? Why are you interested in temperature and not kiloWatts ?
>Why have you got a white roof ? Why is the water not in a pipe ?
>
>
>QUINN EVANS | ARCHITECTS
>
>John E. Beeson, LEED AP
>
>219 1/2 N. Main Street
>Ann Arbor, MI 48104
>jbeeson at quinnevans.com
>www.quinnevans.com
>d 734 926 0425
>v 734 663 5888
>f 734 663 5044
>_______________________________________________________________
>This green building dialogue is provided as a public service by Drew
>George, along with Environmental Building News
>http://www.buildinggreen.com. For instructions see
>http://www.biggreen.org/discussion.html
>_______________________________________________________________
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 09:04:27 -0400
From: "John E. Beeson" <jbeeson at quinnevans.com>
Subject: RE: Big Green: White roof water temp runoff?
To: "Barrie Moore" <merlon at gn.apc.org>
Cc: biggreen at lists.biggreen.org
Message-ID:
<E4DA7CC709C64F418C163E11980245B9E60429 at a2xeon.quinnevans.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
My hands are tied. I'm thankful to at least get the white roof and to
get the water from the roof to feed a cistern for irrigation. But now,
I have to make sure the water temperature isn't dangerous to plants
during the summer.
QUINN EVANS | ARCHITECTS
John E. Beeson, LEED AP
d 734 926 0425
________________________________
From: Barrie Moore [mailto:merlon at gn.apc.org]
Why are you interested in temperature and not kiloWatts ? Why
have you got a white roof ? Why is the water not in a pipe ?
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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 09:37:34 -0400
From: "Heather Walters" <hwalters at dotyandmiller.com>
Subject: RE: Big Green: White roof water temp runoff?
To: "John E. Beeson" <jbeeson at quinnevans.com>, "Barrie Moore"
<merlon at gn.apc.org>
Cc: biggreen at lists.biggreen.org
Message-ID:
<67D341CF75F50742A38897C3C1F9151C5D587E at srv-main.dotymiller.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Maybe I'm missing something, but if it is raining (to feed the cistern)
the roof will not be at its maximum temperature and the plants will not
require irrigation for a while.
So the water should not be used for a while and would have a chance to
cool off even if it was hot...
I would imagine the cistern design would be more important. Could you
put a temp sensor in the cistern and not irrigate when the temperature
is more than X degrees, that may force night time irrigation which is
better for plant health and water use (less evaporation) anyway...
Heather Walters , LEED AP
Doty and Miller Architects
From: biggreen-bounces at lists.biggreen.org
[mailto:biggreen-bounces at lists.biggreen.org] On Behalf Of John E. Beeson
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 9:04 AM
To: Barrie Moore
Cc: biggreen at lists.biggreen.org
Subject: RE: Big Green: White roof water temp runoff?
My hands are tied. I'm thankful to at least get the white roof and to
get the water from the roof to feed a cistern for irrigation. But now,
I have to make sure the water temperature isn't dangerous to plants
during the summer.
QUINN EVANS | ARCHITECTS
John E. Beeson, LEED AP
d 734 926 0425
________________________________
From: Barrie Moore [mailto:merlon at gn.apc.org]
Why are you interested in temperature and not kiloWatts ? Why
have you got a white roof ? Why is the water not in a pipe ?
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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 10:25:33 -0400
From: "John E. Beeson" <jbeeson at quinnevans.com>
Subject: Big Green: RE:White roof water temp runoff?
To: "Heather Walters" <hwalters at dotyandmiller.com>, "Barrie Moore"
<merlon at gn.apc.org>
Cc: biggreen at lists.biggreen.org
Message-ID:
<E4DA7CC709C64F418C163E11980245B9E60479 at a2xeon.quinnevans.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
no prob. I didn't give a lot of information because really all I was
looking for was the temperature of water coming off of a white roof
during the summer.
The first flush of rain hitting the roof will be in direct contact with
a very warm surface, thereby transferring heat to the water. The water
goes down a pipe, out a scupper and into a plant bed, then into a
cistern type area for storage and such.
Say hello to Bill for me!
________________________________
From: Heather Walters [mailto:hwalters at dotyandmiller.com]
Maybe I'm missing something, but if it is raining (to feed the cistern)
the roof will not be at its maximum temperature and the plants will not
require irrigation for a while.
So the water should not be used for a while and would have a chance to
cool off even if it was hot...
I would imagine the cistern design would be more important. Could you
put a temp sensor in the cistern and not irrigate when the temperature
is more than X degrees, that may force night time irrigation which is
better for plant health and water use (less evaporation) anyway...
Heather Walters , LEED AP
Doty and Miller Architects
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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 11:26:39 -0400
From: "Lisa Selin Davis" <alternatelisa at gmail.com>
Subject: Big Green: pioneers of green building--who are they?
To: biggreen at biggreen.org
Message-ID:
<77cc58e00805220826q3f37f89atd599214acf0acfba at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi, guys. I'm trying to compile a list of the most important green
building movers and shakers currently--folks like Ed Mazria, or even
Michael Reynolds, the earthship designer, who might be changing the way
we think about and make green buildings. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Lisa
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 11:50:23 -0400
From: Jesse Thompson <jesse at kaplanthompson.com>
Subject: Re: Big Green: pioneers of green building--who are they?
To: Lisa Selin Davis <alternatelisa at gmail.com>
Cc: biggreen at biggreen.org
Message-ID: <28115427-F199-4E03-AD47-DEA0A182BC04 at kaplanthompson.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
My short list of Residential Pioneers (it's New England / cold climate
biased):
Marc Rosenbaum: http://www.energysmiths.com/ Mechanical engineer, low
energy guru, tireless cold climate energy advocate.
Building Science Corporation, Betsy Pettit & Joe Lstiburek:
http://www.buildingscienceconsulting.com/about/who/default.htm
Affordable green housing, great technical lecturers, leaders in durable
buildings.
Katrin Klingenberg, E-co Lab @ U of Illinois :
http://www.e-colab.org/ecolab/Contact.html
http://www.passivehouse.us/passiveHouse/PHIUSHome.html
Chief proselytizer for the German Passivhaus program in the US, has
really turned the American "buy a bunch of gadgets and bolt them on the
roof" mentality on its head for us.
Bruce Coldham, Coldham & Hartman Architects:
http://www.coldhamandhartman.com/ Western Mass architect, lots of
co-housing, green from the beginning.
Jesse Thompson, AIA, LEED AP
Kaplan Thompson Architects
424 Fore St
Portland, ME 04101
p: 207 842-2888
f: 207 842-2828
jesse at kaplanthompson.com
http://www.kaplanthompson.com
On May 22, 2008, at 11:26 AM, Lisa Selin Davis wrote:
> Hi, guys. I'm trying to compile a list of the most important green
> building movers and shakers currently--folks like Ed Mazria, or even
> Michael Reynolds, the earthship designer, who might be changing the
> way we think about and make green buildings. Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
> Lisa
> _______________________________________________________________
> This green building dialogue is provided as a public service by Drew
> George, along with Environmental Building News
> http://www.buildinggreen.com. For instructions see
> http://www.biggreen.org/discussion.html
> _______________________________________________________________
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_______________________________________________________________
This green building dialogue is provided as a public service by Drew
George, along with Environmental Building News
http://www.buildinggreen.com For instructions see
http://www.biggreen.org/discussion.html
_______________________________________________________________
End of BigGreen Digest, Vol 31, Issue 15
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