Big Green: MR 7 Question

[Andrew Gil]

Thanks Amy,

I appreciate the effort of your reply, but I think the "answer" is in the other direction: The LEED v2.2 Reference Guide goes to great lengths to draw a distinction between when someone processing a wood product needs a COC certification or not: My guess, now having just re-read this, is that the millwork subcontractor cannot add the value of his labor to the product unless he has a COC certification. In other words, the  rules are as "unjust" from his perspective as they appear to be (I suspect, though, not with reason and purpose). Although this doesn't cover this situation 100%, I take it as a pretty strong indicator:

                "A fabricator using a labeled product as a component of a larger assembly will need to have COC certification since it is altering the product's packaging, and possibly its form".

The really irony here, as I'm sure most Big Geeners will recognize, is that this language encourages our local mill shop to buy products manufactured at some other location rather than being able to contribute to the local economy. (I know the obvious retort is that the local mill shop could obtain COC certification but, honestly, while that might be logical and true, it would not be a very realistic  suggestion).

Thanks,

Andrew M. Gil, AIA
Architect, LEED-Accredited Professional
Project Manager

HOLT Architects, P.C.
217 N. Aurora St.
Ithaca, NY 14850
p. 607 273-7600
f. 607 273-0475
http://www.holt.com

From: Amy Bauman [mailto:abauman at greengoat.org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:14 AM
To: Andrew Gil; biggreen at lists.biggreen.org
Subject: RE: Big Green: MR 7 Question

Hi -

I think his question is more a spec / construction cost question, rather than a LEED-specific or LCA question.

If the spec calls for moldings, and he think he can meet the spec, make a bit of money for his trouble, then I would think that the value of the molding is what he charges the project for the molding (which includes his milling).

If he doesn't split the milling time out and include is as part of the molding, then the LEED point documentation person would need to think of that.  It makes sense to me that the cost of ANY molding includes mill work.  He is questioning it because he's thinking like a carpenter, not like a manufacturer.

IMO, he should think (and invoice) like a manufacturer.


Amy Bauman
Director
greenGoat
501(c)3, WBE helping building owners spare construction waste
617-666-5253
abauman at greengoat.org



From: biggreen-bounces at lists.biggreen.org [mailto:biggreen-bounces at lists.biggreen.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Gil
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:08 AM
To: biggreen at lists.biggreen.org
Subject: Big Green: MR 7 Question

Dear Big Green-ers,

I have been asked another question that I can't really come up with a knowledgeable reply and/or good explanation of. If anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated.

A millwork subcontractor called asking:

1.       A general question about  determining the material value of FSC certified wood product with regard to his labor. I told him my opinion was that since wood has value constantly being added to it from the moment the tree is felled in the woods, the ONLY  'snapshot' of its value that made any sense was the cost of wood as declared on the invoiced from the FSC-certified wood dealer (i.e. the company that has been certified, and the cost as it appears on the same invoice that declares it's % FSC certified content).

2.       He then asked a specific question (same topic) about declaring the value of the wood when he has the option of buying FSC-certified wood stock and milling moldings himself (covered by question #1 above) OR purchasing moldings that are FSC certified. From his point of view, this appears as though the "material cost only" figure can indeed include production costs just as long as it isn't HIS labor costs that are included.

I had to confess that I could see the logic in his question/ complaint and had nothing to offer him as far as a correction or clarification. Can you please help?


Andrew M. Gil, AIA
Architect, LEED-Accredited Professional
Project Manager

HOLT Architects, P.C.
217 N. Aurora St.
Ithaca, NY 14850
p. 607 273-7600
f. 607 273-0475
http://www.holt.com

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.biggreen.org/pipermail/biggreen/attachments/20090428/724e5ce2/attachment.htm